NNBS 2/3 Alignment Issues

DeanH1290

DeanH1290

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Jan 20, 2014
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Since I've been having so much trouble with this, I figured I'd make a thread. Truck is a 2011 Silverado 1500 4x4 Z71 with 108,xxx miles.

2 weeks ago I went from leveled to a 2/3 drop. I used belltech street performance lowering struts with factory coils. I took the truck the following Tuesday to get it aligned. The tech stated that he could not get the camber to adjust at all. Brought it back the following Saturday to have another tech take a look. The new tech was unable to set the camber either, leaving the front with -3* and -2*. They did go on and set caster and toe. Today (the following Saturday), I took it to the dealer to have them align it. They got it much closer than the other shop, but still couldn't get it all the way in spec. Here are the spec sheets.

Before (tech adjusted camber on drivers side before these measurements)
cc0303ff60ace6f0e687e97e73cfb13f.jpg


After
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So what is going on with my front end? What could be worn that will keep the camber that far off? What could cause the toe to change so drastically in one week?
 
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Have you checked all your steering stuff? IIRC, your truck is rack and pinion. I would jack the front end up and shimmy the wheel at 9:00 and 3:00 or actually grab the outer tie rod and shimmy it to check for play. That could be causing your toe change.

The -1.7* of camber isn't necessarily that bad, on 3 of my 4 mustangs, I had the shop set camber at -1.5-2* depending on my setup and I never had any abnormal wear at all. BUT, that still doesn't explain why they can't get it in spec and you definitely want the camber to be the same or within a point or 2 of each side. I'm not sure what all is involved in your front end and how camber is adjusted on a 2wd truck. Hopefully someone else will chime in. I know on my mustangs, you could move the top of the strut where it bolts to the strut tower via the slotted holes for the studs and also if you bought camber bolts, where the strut bolts to the spindle. Maybe camber bolts would be an option for you?
 
With going from stock to leveled to dropped could cause wear on your balljoints. I don't know much about it but I had to replace mine to get mine alignment. May be a good place to start
 
@Huck - I haven't checked the steering in a while, but I'll make sure to check the outer tie rods for lay next chance I get. For the camber, the UCA adjusts in and out to set camber. There is a can plate that sets the location.

@Alecks - I don't know how to check for wear on the ball joints, but I know they are not leaking. I need a new UCA if the ball joint is bad, correct?
 
Ohhh didn't know there were UCAs. Maybe you need new cam plates? I know on NBSs, they're spot welded in place and with lifts sometimes you need different ones to get the alignment right
 
@Huck - I can get new cam plates, but they shouldn't be needed. The stock ones are not welded and are fully adjustable from factory.

Back to the toe, the tie rod parts are relatively inexpensive, so would it be worth replacing them due to the mileage on the truck? If so, should I do inners and outers?
 
Don't know if it will hep or not, but I took some pics of the cam plates to show how they are adjusted.

Driver Rear
265942835be8e868f059cf2d5a0b8b32.jpg

Driver Front
41cae4e85036373bb43c95219477da20.jpg

Pass Rear
fc3185d6af2aadb428ed897534785289.jpg

Pass Front
9cfe97d2052b8d8c5533e8d71b2b6cb6.jpg


Are the plates supposed to be set the same, or is that how they set the caster? Also felt of the tie rods and they had little to no play in them.
 
that's how they set caster. throw an UCA with offset bushing in on that side, thatll fix it

- - - - - - - - - -auto merged double post- - - - - - - - - -

I had one side that was being fucky like that...got an UCA with offset bushings for that one side n tech aligned it perfectly.
 
2005_Silverado said:
that's how they set caster. throw an UCA with offset bushing in on that side, thatll fix it

- - - - - - - - - -auto merged double post- - - - - - - - - -

I had one side that was being fucky like that...got an UCA with offset bushings for that one side n tech aligned it perfectly.
Click to expand...
I would throw offset bushings in there, but according to Kim at the suspension source, I should be able to align to factory spec without any issues. That leads me to believe that something is worn or needs replaced, I just don't know what.
 
Yeah I'm confused as well as to why it won't go into spec. Like Kim said, you shouldn't need them. But at the same time, if it'll fix it, might just have to do it. I wouldn't worry about doing the tie rods unless there's play in them. I had 162k on my old truck with the original front end with ~20k on 33" mud tires and it was just getting some slop in it, so I doubt your truck needs them. But yes, when the time comes, go ahead and do both inners and outers just so you don't have to tear into it twice
 
my stuff was all new too....I went from 17" Mcg spindles down to the 16"....passenger side was being a fgt but driver side was perfectly fine :shrug:
 
For now I'm going to take it back and get the camber evened out. I'm also thinking the toe issue really isn't an issue since the tech adjusted the camber before putting it on the rack.
 
as long as they can get camber and toe within spec, caster can fuck off. My caster is in the red and it tracks straight and steering wheel returns to center :shrug:
 
caster.jpg


Caster is the measure of how far forward or behind the steering axis is to the verticle axis, viewed from the side. An example of caster in action is the front wheels on a shopping cart. They run a large amount of positive caster to make the cart track straight without wandering. However, the method that the cart uses (displacement caster) is different than how your car develops it’s caster angle (angled pivot), but the effect is the same.

Positive Caster is when the steering axis is “in front of” the verticle. In a road car, this would mean that the top of the coilover would be pushed towards the rear of the car. Positive caster creates a lot of align torque (the force that straightens the steering wheel when you go forward) which improves straight line stability of the car. Due to the geometry of positive caster it also will increase negative camber gain (a good thing) when turning. As you increase positive caster the steering will get heavier also, but with modern power steering systems this is rarely a problem. Generally you want as much positive caster as you can reasonably get so long as the car is equipped with power steering.

Negative Caster is when the steering axis is “behind” the verticle. This is generally only found on older vehicles due to tire technology, chassis dynamics, and other reasons. Modern vehicles do not use negative caster. It will lighten the steering effort but also increases the tendency for the car to wander down the road.

Special Note – Regardless of what caster setting you use, make sure that your caster is symmetrical. Running a different amount of caster on one side will cause the car to pull towards the side with less caster.
 
Thanks. According to that, positive caster would be reduced to get camber adjusted better. will it be very noticeable? I have some serious highway time coming up in the next month (driving to Florida and back) and don't want it to be all over the place.
 
OK, so a little update to this with some more front end issues.

At full lock in reverse, sometimes it feels like its binding up some as if 4wd was engaged, just not as severe. I also noticed the same effect at low speeds in drive, but at varying sharpness of turns. Thoughts?
 
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